Expert Info for an M1910 Mannlicher-Schoenauer Wanted

[adbm3]

Recently was given the subject rifle. I was also given a box of fired Kynoch cases - all Berdan primed. Rifle is in pristine shape.

However, the question is if anyone has any ammo sources for 9x57 Mannlicher (.375 Rimless Nitro Express), Reloading brass/bullets and dies. I found one ammo source online (Reed's Ammo) but they seem to be out of stock. I've seen videos on converting Berdan to Boxer, but it seems a bit sketchy to do that.

 

[tdb59]

@MilsurpMonkey

 

[K. Funk]

Supposedly, forming from .35 Whelen is not too difficult, form and trim. I have never done it, just read about it. Dies might be another story.

krf

 

[adbm3]

Ugh, stoopid of me. I found a Grok query that told me quite a lot. Yeah, dies are difficult.

 

[MilsurpMonkey]

Are we talking 9.5x57? Because 9x57 is a bastard child and not the .375 rimless nitro…

 

[MilsurpMonkey]

9.5MS isn’t terrible. Neck up 8x57 brass, trim, seat an appropriate .375 bullet (small case, small charge, don’t use heavies, they’ll disappoint in all categories). Buffalo arms and eBay have die availability from time to time. CH4D will make them for you.

 

[imacoonass01]

Backorder available:

.375 Rimless Nitro Express – Reed’s Ammunition & Research

Quality Cartridge 9.5x57mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer Brass Bag of 20

New, unprimed brass. Made in USA. This is not loaded ammunition. Quality Cartridge is a devoted manufacturer of Custom, Obsolete, and Wildcat cartridge cases. They provide premium properly headstamped empty cartridge cases in the widest array of calibers.

grafs.com

or try this if you have dies:

Reloading the 9.5x57mm is simple, since the bullets are standard .375 diameter and you can make your cases from .30-06 or 9.3x57mm. I have used both routes in loading for three different M1910s since 1972. I started by first using the .30-06 as the "universal donor", sometime later I discovered 9.3x57mm Norma brass, thanks to my Grandfather. The 9.5x57mm is such a mild cartridge that the cases merely expand the tiny amount necessary to build prime 9.5mm cases, which occurs in almost every instance of wildcatted brass anyway. There is no problem to be found using 9.3x57mm as the basic case.

There will be problems if you use a sharply tapered bullet like the Hornaday 270 grain or a flat nosed .38-55 bullet in your loadings. They will not feed reliably thru the rotary magazine. You need to stay with a more "standard" bullet design like the Speer or Norma in any weight from 235 grain to the 286 grain. The Speer has "always" been my go to bullet for the 9.5x57mm. As for loading recipes, "Cartridges of the World" is a good starting resource for data. Use standard large rifle primers, and remember these are 70 to 97 year old rifles. Oh yes, the flat nose 255 grain bullets made for the .38-55 WCF do shoot well in a 9.5x57mm, they just do not feed thru the magazine.
Recipes - Here are some old ones I have used as starters -
235 gr Speer 43.5 gr IMR 4895
270 gr Winchester 45.5 IMR 4895
286 gr Speer 43.5 gr IMR 4895
286 gr Speer 42.0 gr IMR 3031
270 gr Norma 46.0 gr IMR 4895
270 GR Norma 46.0 gr N201
All loads were fired first in .30-06 based cases and later in 9.3x57mm based cases. Another comment, I've standardized on the 235 grain Speer bullet for reduced recoil because of my arthritis.
Also, you can buy perfect NEW 9.5x57mm ammunition from KYNAMCO via
CONNECTICUT SHOTGUN MANUFACTURING CO
of 35 Woodland Street, New Britain, CT 06051-1692
Tel 1 800 515 4867, Fax 860 832 8707
Website : www.connecticutshotgun.com
Email : galazan@aol.com
I have a friend who has purchased several hundred rounds of their 9.5x57mm via the Connecticut source, and he has been well satisfied. AND the cases are properly headstamped. However, their website is a little messed up because the pictured cartridges often do not match up with the actual specifications. I think this is because someone (not a gun person) took the pics from their illustrated catalog which is very detailed, and very confusing.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

sierra2 on https://forums.accuratereloading.com/


Die set:

375 Rimless 2 1/4" Nitro Express (9.5X57 MS)

 

[ismith]

Wouldn’t consider myself an expert on the 375 NE, but I did kill a pretty nice bull elk with an old British Mauser chambered in it some years ago.

 

[FAL GRUNT]

I have the predecessor to 9.5MS or 375 Rimless, it's a bit esoteric, but essentially the same. I prefer to step up from 8 to 9 to 9.3 to 9.5.

It's a fun little thumper!

 

[adbm3]

I hear all this great help and commentary. But, damn, a part of me wants to reload for this thing just because of the challenge. Another says don't waste your time on a hundred and ten year old gun with a completely obsolete cartridge where I have to chase down components. Using my Dillon on this would be damn near impossible and spending time on an RCBS wrenching one by one is something I gave up a long time ago. Sure, getting premade ammo from a direct source, and almost sole source, is a good solution for the lazy. But, being in California right now makes that a massive hassle (Please, I don't need comment on that. We're fighting like hell here without anyone's help).

 

[easttex]

I don't know if you'll find 9.5x57mm cases anywhere. Good luck.

But you can use 8x57 or 9.3x57 cases to form them as well as 30-06/35 Whelen. Really any cartridge with enough length and a .473" case head. Just make sure you anneal them properly and use lots of sizing lube. If you're going up from something smaller like .30 caliber, maybe buy an intermediate sized expander mandrel like .338 and expand the necks up in two passes.

The real challenge will be finding properly named brass. You're going to run into the same problem I have with 8x68s which is that Europe lacks a robust small arms ammunition industry and with their recent focus on rearmament, the big manufacturers have ceased production and exportation of components of their lesser common calibers like 9.3x57 and 8x68s. If you need actual 9.5x57 brass, you may be able to get on a wait list with someone like Quality Cartridge (whose brass receives mixed reviews) and wait your turn. Otherwise, you're in for some wildcatting to get brass to make this thing work. It sounds like a really neat project though and good luck! Post some photos of it.

 

[adbm3]

Thanks for the info. Brass is out there. I believe Graf and Sons has some as well as one or two others that I found. I'm not in a willing position to wildcat or resize substitutes with all sorts of fancy equipment. Ammo can be purchased too but it is only from one specialty house (Reeds). Anyway, its all great info for posterity to someone who is in a similar quandary.

 

[easttex]

Thanks for the info. Brass is out there. I believe Graf and Sons has some as well as one or two others that I found. I'm not in a willing position to wildcat or resize substitutes with all sorts of fancy equipment. Ammo can be purchased too but it is only from one specialty house (Reeds). Anyway, its all great info for posterity to someone who is in a similar quandary.

FWIW, it's usually not difficult to swap expander mandrels out. It's been about 25 years since I've done any serious reloading but somewhere in the archives is a 7.62x54r full length sizing die with an expander for a .303 British in. The die manufacturer was under the impression that all 7.62x54r used .308 caliber bullets but I was determined to use .311" Sierra Matchkings and bought a spare mandrel. Was a simple swap...